Archive for October, 2009

Neanderthals with “Humans” - a sidetrack

Thursday, October 29th, 2009

We must dwell for a moment on the root of the entire discussion:  why are Neanderthals an issue?  The old earth view is that Neanderthals lived a long time ago, showing up long before humans, and died out as humans were coming into dominance.  The RTB view must match the old age view, but must not allow Neanderthals to be humans, lest the beginning of Man be pushed back to 150,000 years ago.  Man showing up 150,000 years ago would make it hard to fit “Science” with the Bible, since the Bible records only about 6,000 years of history.  To demonstrate the young earth view let’s go back to the Ark, and the meaning of “Kind”.

Noah took a pair of each kind of animal onto the ark.  After the flood, as the animal pairs multiplied and spread across the land, the genetic potential in the first pair was unevenly distributed into their offspring, just as genetics tells us today.  The dog kind split out in succeeding generations into wolf, fox, coyote, domestic dog, hyena, dingo, and etc.  They differ genetically somewhat, but they are all dog kind.  The horse kind likewise subdivided into horse, zebra, and all the varieties of wild horses found in the world.  Man likewise divided into what we call the Races.  It is a simple matter for Neanderthal to be part of Man Kind, genetically similar, but not identical.  And if their DNA is not identical, well, horses and zebras, of the same Kind, have different numbers of chromosomes, so they are not identical either.

Neanderthals interbreed with “Humans” - the RTB side - article 2

Thursday, October 29th, 2009

This short article on the RTB website refers to a study, just completed, to sequence the Neanderthal genome.  The results of the study will be to show the degree of similarity between human and Neanderthal DNA:

“…a joint team of scientists from Germany and the U.S. announced plans to complete a draft of the Neanderthal genome (an organism’s entire genetic makeup) within the next two years. This research program provides an unimaginable opportunity to test various theories about humanity’s origin. Since that first fossil’s discovery, Neanderthal’s identity and place in humanity’s origin have fascinated scientist and layperson alike. Traditional evolutionary models assert that Neanderthals played some role in human evolution. The Reasons To Believe model, on the other hand, maintains that there is no evolutionary connection between Neanderthals and modern humans.”

First of all, the degree of similarity between two species so close as humans and chimpanzees is a variation of only a few percent.  Research has shown that the variation within humans is on the same order of a few percent, so any results of this study, which will show only a small variation, will be interpreted by any group the way they want to interpret it.

Secondly, what if the genomes turns out to be identical?  RTB can just say God created Man just like Neanderthals, but those Neanderthals are STILL NOT HUMAN! They just look human, and act human, that’s all.  And lived a really long time ago.

In current evolutionary thought, mutations no longer drive gradual improvement.  It is done by gene transfers from one specie to another.  RTB will of course follow “Science” in this paradigm shift, since the basis of their ministry is that we can trust all the conclusions that “Science” has come to in their interpretation of creation from their naturalistic, Godless worldview.  Gene transfers will be used by “Science” to explain the great similarity between Human and Neanderthal.  RTB will be scrambling to figure out how to fit this into their convoluted worldview.

Neanderthals interbreed with “Humans” - the RTB side

Thursday, October 29th, 2009

What does RTB have to say about Neanderthals breeding with humans?  The RTB website has a articles by Ross’s Rottweiler, Fuz Rana, on this very subject.

The first article we will look at makes uses the argument that, while some scientists believe humans and Neanderthals interbred, NOT ALL OF THEM DO!  So it must not be true!  This is a bit like the 50,000,000 Frenchmen Can’t Be Wrong argument: we come to the Truth by a majority vote.  Let us hope that the Bible is voting on our side.

Fuz claims that:

“The case for Neanderthal-modern human interbreeding relies exclusively on morphological (structural, bodily) evidence.”

As we saw in my previous article, this is not at all true.  The case for the human Neanderthal is forced along by the presence of strictly human religious activities associated with Neanderthal bones.  That there are fossil bones exhibiting both human and Neanderthal characteristics is also important, but is not driving this.  Fuz fails to mention the religious activities anywhere in his article.

Quoting Fuz:

New research from the Max Plank Institute provides direct evidence that Neanderthals and modern humans did not interbreed.6 This work compared mitochondrial DNA recovered from four Neanderthals with mitochondrial DNA isolated from the remains of five modern human fossils. The Neanderthal and modern human specimens all date between 30,000 and 40,000 years ago and were recovered from the same geographical locations. Investigators readily recovered Neanderthal-type DNA from the Neanderthal specimens, but only human DNA in the modern human remains. Based on statistical analysis these workers concluded that it was unlikely that Neanderthals made any genetic contribution to the earliest modern humans. In other words, there is no conclusive evidence that Neanderthals and modern humans interbred nor any hint of a possible evolutionary connection.

Fuz concludes that since the Neanderthals contained Neanderthal DNA and the “human” fossils contained human DNA, that there was no interbreeding.  Well, the lion sperm contained lion DNA and the tiger egg contained tiger DNA and they interbred.  The horse sperm contained horse DNA and the donkey egg contained donkey DNA and they interbred, so what have we proved here? Nothing.  The degree of similarity of two fossils boils down to an opinion of two scientists.  If the two scientists were looking at a four foot skeleton of an oriental person next to a skeleton of a over six foot Norwegian or African, they would come to the same conclusion that these were two different species.  Darwin popularized the idea that the races are different species at different evolutionary levels and that brought us the Holocast.  Fuz’s comment that “…there is no… hint of a possible evolutionary connection” is disturbing.  Fuz is looking for an evolutionary connection?  Fuz is a progressive creationist that believes that God created Neanderthals at their time in the fossil record, and humans at their time.  There is no evolutionary connection necessary.  Perhaps this was just a slip.

Neanderthals interbreed with “Humans”

Wednesday, October 28th, 2009

The TimesOnline reports on a soon to be published paper that yet again breaks the news that Neanderthals were not the low brow, stupid race of human like creatures that they have been made out to be for the last sixty years. This article proposes that Homo Sapiens had sexual relations for the “10,000 years” that they coexisted with modern humans in Africa.  The author would not commit to there being any offspring, but he obviously believes there were some since he intends to spend a lot of time and effort to compare the Neanderthal genome with the human genome.  The author comments:

“What I’m really interested in is, did we have children back then and did those children contribute to our variation today?” he said. “I’m sure that they had sex, but did it give offspring that contributed to us? We will be able to answer quite rigorously with the new [Neanderthal genome] sequence.”

How does this link to progressive creationism?  Since progressive creationists insist on accepting without question all that “Science” decrees, they must accept all that is “known” about Neanderthals.  Neanderthals supposedly got their start as much as 100,000 years ago, at the end of the last ice age, putting them well before Adam and Eve.  But progressive creationists cannot allow any “thing” here tens of thousands of years before Adam and Eve to be fully human because the Bible tells us that Adam and Eve were the first fully humans.   To avoid Neanderthals being fully human, Ross teaches that they were soulless human-like creatures that only appear human.  This worked as long as “Science” taught the myth of the stupid Neanderthal.  But since that myth is crumbling in the atheist circles, progressive creationists are left with no ground to stand on.  The article reports on the humanlike behaviors of Neanderthals:

  “I used to believe Neanderthals were primitive,” said Stringer, “but in the last 10,000-15,000 years before they died out, around 30,000 years ago, Neanderthals were giving their dead complex burials and making tools and jewelery, such as pierced beads, like modern humans.”

This information has been reported in the young earth creationist literature for a long time, and as long as it stayed out of the mainstream it could be ignored.  As long as “Science” didn’t talk about Neanderthal humanness there was no problem, but now Hugh’s story, concocted to patch up his compromise, is being attacked from both sides, young earth creationists and old earth evolutionists.  If Neanderthals looked human, acted human, bred with humans producing human offspring, how can we say they were not human?  And if they were human, then they needed a redeemer.  What is progressive creationist to do?  Perhaps interpret science with the Bible, instead of the Bible with “Science”.

So who were these people and when did they live?  Obviously we don’t buy in to the atheist time scale.  Let’s look at just the fact, and then interpret them in light of the Bible, instead of in light of Billions and Billions of Years.

Neanderthals lived before the modern European humans.  They lived a hunting lifestyle.  They were physiologically a little bit different from the modern occupants of Europe.

These facts can be explained quite simply by these being tribes forcibly dispersed by the confusion of languages after the Tower of Babel. This would have happened during the ice age in the first several hundred years after the flood.  Life would have been hard, they would not have been able to settle down and farm.  But there would have been plenty of game, and a temperate climate due to the warm oceans necessary to create the snow to have an ice age.  That they are different from modern Europeans is not surprising, given the diversity in human appearance throughout the world, and the fact that all races were being produced by the genetic pool of Shem, Ham, and Japeth.  They would have lived to the much older age of about 500 years if they were the first generations after Noah.  A 500 year life span could lead to a different physical appearance.

So it’s not so hard after all to just believe the Bible: no playing with the meanings of words, no heroic efforts to make the text say something else than it obviously says.  Just believe it the way it is written that it says what it means to say:  “…for in six days God created the heavens and the earth…” Exodus 19:11